Tag: Alternative New Zealand Histories

Celtic New Zealand – The Next Generation

Well, the Franklin Elocal, under the purvey of Mykeljon Winckel, has produced another article promoting the Celtic New Zealand thesis. It’s essentially a summary of Thor Heyerdahl’s `American Indians in the Pacific.’ You can read what I am presuming is Winckel’s article (since he admitted to writing the previous three in the comments thread of Scott’s open letter) here.

What to make of it? Apart from the lack of latter sources to back any of Heyerdahl’s claims up (there’s a reason why his theories have been largely forgotten outside of his home, Norway) Winckel also fails to provide the thing he said (in the comments thread at the Scoop Review of books) he would, which is actual testimony by Maori as to the truth of his claim that:

Maori oral history has always made it clear that people were well established in New Zealand before the coming of Kupe’s fleet.

and:

There are New Zealanders who will tell you emphatically that their ancestors were not Polynesian, but voyaged from South America long ago.

Now, given that the second claim is a bold elaboration on the first, Winkel needs to actually go some way to showing that such people who make such claims do exist. Given that he provides no evidence of this at all it looks like it is a mere assertion, if not an outright lie.

Now, I’m sure some people might well claim something like this (I’m thinking here of Barry Brailford’s sources for the Waitaha Nation thesis he promotes) but it would be nice to know who Winckel is citing for his claims so we can, you know, check out his sources. A drunk down at the Franklin Local ((Hahahaha, see what I did there? Okay, it’s not really that funny.)) is not usually a reliable source but, for all we know, that’s it.

It’s fairly well accepted that for the great migration to have occurred Polynesian peoples must have come here and then gone back to (presumably the Cook Islands) and some of those pre-migration explorers probably settled. Part of the problem for the archaeology of Aotearoa is that many of those first settlements would have been coastal and those sites are lost to us now due to erosion. The date of first settlement will probably never be known, but that really isn’t all that important (to us non-archaeologists) because the more important part of our history is when the major colonisation/settlement effort began, and we have good oral and archaeological evidence as to when that was and where it first occurred.

What we don’t have is good oral and archaeological evidence for a pre-Maori Celtic settlement. If Winckel wants to assert that such evidence exists he needs to point us towards it.

I’ve still got Doutré’s `Uncensored’ article to comment on. His writing style is much more clumsy and laboured that Winckel’s so give me time.

Pipes on Conspiracy Theorists

Well, although the Wii holds the might of my attention I’m still managing to get some reading in between bouts of killing Space Pirates and playing with Rabbids. Daniel Pipes’ ‘Conspiracy: How the Paranoid Style Flourishes and Where It Comes From’ (New York: Free Press, 1997) has this lovely quote which could well be about our Celtic New Zealand scholars.

Conspiracy theorists parade academic titles (“Dr.,” “Professor”), earned or not. No less than conventional historians, they steep themselves in the literature of their subject and become expert in it. The difference lies in their methods; rather than piece together the past through the accumulation of facts, they plunder legitimate historical studies to build huge edifices out of odd and unrelated elements. (Pipes 1997 p. 3)

Back to Wi… work.

1999?

If I were more musically inclined I’d make the title a Prince reference, but that isn’t happening.

Celtic New Zealand Book Notes

(The image comes courtesy of the Fundy Post, who alerted me to the orginating publications presence and location within the University of Auckland’s library.)

So, 1999. As the image above should show to the discerning viewer, something was happening back then. A glut of Celtic New Zealand thesis tomes were produced.

Now, I’m fairly sure 1999 was the period in New Zealand where cheap offset printing became a reality and a whole host of small press publishers appeared, needing things to print. That is what I’m assuming; it may, of course, be utter tripe. Still, these books did appear and people like Doutré do treat publication, in any form, as some kind of public vindication of their theories. That so much paper should be wasted on such projects is scary.

Back to work for me; I have a test to write.

Celts

Well, after thinking ‘That was that’ the editor of the Franklin E Local, Myklejon Winckel has surfaced to attack all and sundry for distorting his words and accusing him, a military man whose mother was a POW, of supporting a Neo-Nazi worldview.

The fun and frolics resumes here.

The Dentith Files – Birth Certificates and Celts

Between 2008 and 2010, Matthew Dentith first joined 95bFM’s Simon Pound, then José Barbosa, on Sunday mornings to talk about conspiracy theories. Listen, as they say, again!

Well, that was the last Dentith Files of the year; we’ll be back formally on the 18th of January with the gods knowing what we will talk about. There’s a slight chance something might happen next Sunday on the last show of the year so I’ll update you all later in the week.

This week, I looked at the extreme right wing blogosphere’s howling about Barack Obama’s birth certificate and returned to the Celtic New Zealand thesis and claims of a conspiracy by the government to hide the truth!

One more thing

I’m also fascinated by one line of reasoning Doutré uses, which is that if a culture can achieve greatness in areas A, B and C, then you should expect them to expect them to achieve greatness in D. He uses this to claim that as the South American civilisations were great builders, et al, we should also expect them to be great navigators.

Once again, three things.

1. Doutré seems to treat the South American groups in antiquity as one; we now know that they did not present a civilisation like Rome or Ancient Egypt with a single culture and a single capital. These groups existed independently of one another, co-operating where need be. Given what we know about them it is very plausible indeed to suspect that they weren’t the great navigators they claim to be.

2. Doutré seems to suggest that by denying his thesis you denigrate these peoples. He doesn’t seem to think that by denying the conventional wisdom he is denigrating the Polynesians, however.

3. If Doutré’s reasoning was correct you’d be able to argue, via analogy, for all sorts of things. Leonardo da Vinci was a great artist and inventor; surely he must have been a great novelist? This then leads you to all sorts of weird inferences; Edward de Vere was an acclaimed playwright in his day but his plays have not survived… Or have they? That road leads you to the Shakespeare Conspiracy Theories, where you infer that de Vere is the Bard because of inferences about de Vere’s life that fit the things Shakespeare wrote.